Talk:Hellfire (Borderlands)
Wikia Overhaul: Hellfire The Wikia is in a sorry state. I know a lot of you have been trying your hardest, but, unfortunately, there is just too much incorrect information here. No pages accurately reflect how the game works. We, at the official Gearbox Forums, are going to be changing that. I am starting with the Hellfire page. First change: the cookie-cutter box on the right. The Hellfire is created by the addition of the acc5_Maliwan_Hellfire accoessory to the weapon. Its only modifications are +14(Pre-add) Tech Level, a +1.8 Cost Multiplier, and +3 Rarity. The accessory also requires the title "Hellfire", which has a priority of +5, a +1.0 Cost Multiplier, and a rarity modifier of +50. There aren't any other changes made by the accessory. The listing of "accuracy" on the box is irrelevant to the weapon, because that is determined by the other parts (e.g., body, barrel, material). Damage is worthless, because damage is scaled by level, in addition to modifiers from weapon parts. Fire rate, too, is modified by weapon parts. So on and so forth. The weapon displayed on the page will be the ideal (maxed) mag5, barrel5, sight5 version ("all5") version. Those stats (including some hidden ones) will be listed in the article, as well as the stats for the level 48 version, so that players without Knoxx can compare their weapons to the all5 version. In addition, we will be overhauling the "Special Weapon effects" section, listing modifications with data straight from the game's files. No speculation. There will also be a subsection listing restrictions. For example, Hellfires must be Maliwans, must have maliwan materials, and must have the TitleM_Maliwan1_Hellfire title. This page is going to be serving as a template for other Legendary and Unique weapons, so it'd be much appreciated if contributors didn't revert it back to an older format, because reverting to saves with incorrect/misleading info is such a way would be considered vandalism. If you want to help with the wikia overhaul, head over the the Gearbox Forums and spend some time learning how Gearbuilder assembles weapons. In addition, play around with the community developed GearCalc tool, which should be incredibly useful in learning how weapon parts affect one another. Best of luck to us all, L3VIATH4N 03:52, June 20, 2010 (UTC) Leviathan : This isn't exactly a textbook example of "how to win friends and influence people", Leviathan - more a case of "how to lose friends and aggravate people". If you think the Wikia is in such bad shape, all you have to do is what the rest of us do - correct errors when we find them and add new information as it comes to hand. No need to get on your high horse, or say things like "No pages accurately reflect how the game works". Just get on with your edits - if we like them, we'll keep them; if we don't, we'll can them. That's how a Wiki works. :And having read your rewrite of the Maliwan Hellfire page - I'm not overly impressed. The information you've added is interesting and useful, especially to modders and to people interested in the nuts and bolts of the game, but you've taken out stuff that was actually useful to people who just want to play Borderlands. :For example, removing the information about accuracy for the Hellfire is a step backwards; it's irrelevant to the majority of players whether the accuracy is a result of the accessory or the other components - the point is that we used to have a indication of the range of accuracies one could find in a Hellfire. Now we don't. How is this an improvement for a player who just wants to know whether their Hellfire is an accurate or inaccurate one? Similarly damage range, rate of fire and magazine sizes was all useful information even if it wasn't perfect. Most players are well aware that damage is affected by level and skills; the damage info was there so that people could compare the Hellfire with other SMGs and get an idea of it's strengths and weaknesses versus other SMGs. Useful, don't you think? :This is not your Wiki to order people around in. If you want to provide the perfect Borderlands Wiki, with all information meeting your stringent standards, I suggest you start your own. Outbackyak 19:28, June 26, 2010 (UTC) : :I totally agree with Outbackyak on that one. The remodeled Hellfire article may be more useful for techheads, but acutally it's way less useful for people just playing the game. I don't have part and material lists beside me when I play borderlands and I don't care about them. I just want to know whether a new found gun is better than a recent gun. And that question could be answered perfectly by the article you "ovberhauled" by complete destruction, Leviathan. The info box on the right gave a perfect overview on the weapon's stats' ranges was just perfect for me. I don't care about which stat is actually caused by what, I only care about the upper and lower bounds of the weapon's stats, which imo are well placed in a weapon's article. Your article, Leviathan, isn't helpful for me here. I'd have to read through 5 or 6 different articles right know to gain the info I want. :My suggestion would be: Leave the articles as they are as a combination on actual weapon info mixed with the boundaries defined by parts (I'd strongly recommend to revert the Hellfire article to an older state 'cause it sucks hard right now), and just add your tech talk as a new chapter to the articles. Ouverlauling doesn't mean you have to invade and conquer the wiki without discussing it with the community at first. Regards, Michael, 09:37, June 30, 2010 (GMT) ::please see Maliwan Hellfire/Mechanics. is this acceptable to all parties? 19:42, June 30, 2010 (UTC) :: ::Dr F. if you are responsible for fixing Leviathans "overhaul" then kudos. I see where he was going, but the truth is that most of what he added would be confusing for those new to the game. Your solution was great for those who wish to add all the material and generation information to weapon articles. I also think reverting the itemcard and description of it is better because it gives people an idea of what to expect from a random version of the weapon. Using just a "perfect" example and listing stats for that one weapon may confuse new players as well.GT: ConceitedJarrad XBOX360 18:10, July 31, 2010 (UTC) :It's a totally worthless addition to the wiki, but we have to accommodate the "100% Official Gearbox Forums" pudknockers who ride over here on their Shetland ponies and make stupid claims like, "No pages accurately reflect how the game works." That alone warrants a six month ban in my opinion. I mean, Leviathan's attempt to purge all inaccurate information has birthed a slew of opinion (inaccurate information, a.k.a., "crap") about the randomness of straight-up game play on the one hand and the futility of "all5" (huh?) weapons for those of us who mod on the other. Nice. — : Trivia If anyone edits either of those song titles out, I'm going to hunt them down and choke them to death. This should pretty much end this whole asinine argument right now, full stop. --DestinysHand 12:28, December 31, 2009 (UTC) :Haha, my edit involved a bunch of other stuff, sorry I squished your intervening one. A few dozen other artists have tracks reference or sample The Roof Is on Fire. The original and the wiki link are probably enough. --Raisins 12:45, December 31, 2009 (UTC) ::We may as well word it somewhere in this neighborhood: :::'...is a reference to a pop culture phenomenon originally coined by the song...' ::You see where I'm going? --DestinysHand 13:18, December 31, 2009 (UTC) :::: LOL, I chopped everything but the original creators of the song off as soon as I saw that BS, but if you monkeys are having a war over this I'll go put it back... seriously though if your think _______ simply must be the band that inspired that quote you need to get a life. :P-- 04:34, January 22, 2010 (UTC) re:missles - the hellfire has been around much longer than predator remote surveillance aircraft. 19:25, June 1, 2010 (UTC) Possible unseen reload speed buff? So far I've found 3 hellfires, but noticed a large discrepancy between the reload speed of each. Now given the number of lines of text the gun comes with naturally it would seems that something like this is on it but just bumped past the max lines shown of 5. Anyone else have any thoughts? If need be I guess I could always Fraps each of their reload animations.--Kylis 12:25, December 16, 2009 (UTC) :parts are random, some parts affect reload speed. The way some things are hidden is strange, when you change the manufacturer different things show up. For instance Tediore changes reload speeds, so its weapons will tell you what the bonus is, and it lists the total from all parts not just the Tediore mats. I guess Maliwan doesn't. please excuse me messing with your post. --Raisins 19:50, December 16, 2009 (UTC) :The default is supposed to be 5 lines, so the other details would be bumped off the item card. As far as I know, the stock and mag (maybe grip, too) affect reload speed. Nagamarky 10:54, December 17, 2009 (UTC) ::My guess would be that the stock and clip have the most effect, as the last one has totally different reload speeds compared to the first two which have similar stocks and clips. Rawwar13 14:08, December 17, 2009 (UTC) :::The last one is maliwan material 2, that's worth +10% reload speed. --Raisins 01:12, December 18, 2009 (UTC) I have a couple of hellfires with the same stock, the reload speed is caused by it ~anon If you pick this gun up as a lvl 25, should you still keep it as you level (assuming you don't get another orange) or will a blue or purple higher level weapon eventually be a better choice? :It depends on your class and spec -- 17:08, December 7, 2009 (UTC) :Personally my Siren used a level 25 Hellfire (a good one with 3.9x scope and high fire rate of 12.5) and used it heavily for ~15 levels. I tried other weapons and always came back to the Hellfire. I actually found a level 34 along the way with worse scope, worse damage and worse fire rate than the level 25 model (due to body types etc.). My current mainstay weapon on Lilith is a level 43 Hellfire with 3.9x scope, ~125 damage, ~90 accuracy and a 55 round drum magazine. The only elemental guns that compare for me are the high end Pestilent Defilers with scopes.--Wang Foolio 20:50, December 9, 2009 (UTC) ---- Does the hellfire have any other benefits compared to non-legendary SMGs aside from the 4x fire element? I've found a level 43 hellfire and a purple level 43 combustion stinger – with the stinger having 4x fire, higher damage, higher rate of fire – and larger clip size and currently wonder which one's stronger... ---- Best SMG in the game?I heal if you shut it 20:51, November 5, 2009 (UTC) :(IMO) This thing is far from the best smg in the game. I still believe that the double anarchy will always have it beat. It has no elemental effect chance meaning it will be able to be used in any and all situations. It can also be used at med-close range. The ability to fir 4 bullets rapidly also makes it very useful for when you need to get a second wind on the ground and an enemy is up close. -- Someone (Use sigs next time) ::"the double anarchy will always have it beat". On which planet? Not Pandora. Lets break it down, eh? ::--Ammo Consumption-- :::Blatant fail for the Anarchy line. Not only do A's blaze through ammo at double the normal rate, they have to do all their damage directly. Hellfires can knock off a fraction of an opponents life with direct fire and move to the next target, knowing their previous victim will shortly be a pile of ash. ::--Clip Size-- :::It looks like the Anarchy comes out on top... or does it? You basically need to divide that number by two... at which point its a win-some/lose-some case by case basis. Call it "break even". ::--Range-- :::Anarchy's accuracy: Upper 20s to lower 30s for A's Hellfire's accuracy: upper 70s to low 90s. And you don't need to know about stupidly vast quantities of recoil. The more accurate Hellfire can successfully engage targets at sniping range. The more accurate Anarchy's at sniping range can waste a lot of ammo. ::--Defense-- :::Anarchy requires that you be exposed to your target until you kill it. :::Hellfire lets you fire off a shorter burst and duck back behind cover. ::--Damage Per Second-- :::Anarchy's DPS is quite good at point blank, and drops sharply outside it. Lets crunch some numbers... :::The best Anarchy listed (purple, level 43) works out to 5900 (118 x 4 x 12.5) DPS. That's really impressive, given that all 4 bullets are landing (so they're in melee range). This Anarchy will have to reload in under 2 seconds. Don't expect that to work out past 5 meters, particularly with the recoil that thing will be putting out. :::The best hellfire? A level 45 instance listed above does 1850 (148 x 12.5) bullet dps, a rate they can sustain for over 4 seconds before needing to reload. If we guess that the burn damage lasts for 5 seconds, it means each bullet will add 148*4/5 DPS... 118.4 DPS per bullet over the next 5 seconds. After firing the entire clip (which takes just under 4 seconds), the DPS when that last round was fired will be: 118.4 * 55 = 6512 from the fire, plus the original 1850 from the bullets, for a grand total of 8362. I suspect the Hellfire would catch up while the anarchy was reloading. :::But that all assumes point blank range where every round strikes its target. Not very realistic. Hellfire's superior accuracy will grant it greater bullet-only DPS against distant/covered targets. ::--VS Flaming enemies-- :::This is the only place where the Anarchy wins, and even then only at shorter ranges. ::--VS Shielded enemies-- :::Anarchy fails less here, at least until that shield goes down. Against Eridians, the effectiveness stays pretty level until they're dead. Against bandits or crimson lance? Meh. Once that shield goes down, it's back to fail-ville for the Anarchy. ::In conclusion: Anarchies are great point blank weapons that can easily take the place of a shotgun. Hellfires are great weapons that can take the place of just about everything. Some situations (point blank DPS against low-health targets) show the Anarchy to be superior, but you'd better bring a LOT of ammo. ::--Feel the BURN! 23:48, December 2, 2009 (UTC) :::Jesus Christ! We need you to do this more man!--Saphireking65 01:38, December 3, 2009 (UTC) ::Addendum: Another thing to point out--namely the point made that the Double Anarchy really shines when you're trying to get a second wind. From experience, I can say that I've seen few weapons work better for getting a second wind than the Hellfire. The high fire DoT often kills an enemy before I even have a chance to realize that I've been put down. Additionally, I've noticed that some enemies have a tendency to walk away or run behind cover after dealing crippling damage to a player--severely limiting the effectiveness of short-to-medium range weapons. With the Hellfire, on the other hand, you have the ability of igniting an enemy with a single connecting bullet, or spraying out bullets and igniting as many foes as possible in the hopes of just one burning to the ground for a second wind. --Orangemason 00:21, December 13, 2009 (UTC) ::Seconded: While in the Underdome, I found it very useful on the higher levels to spray-n-pray the crowds with my Hellfire. I tend to get dropped once or twice a round at that point, but by mostly-killing enemies and letting the fire finish the job I ensure my near-instant revival. It's really quite handy. Texhn 02:59, May 6, 2010 (UTC) Gebraheel 17:46, December 14, 2009 (UTC) :I picked up a level 25 purple TD22 Double Anarchy, So honestly, I'll keep my DVL390 Hard volcano for my fire damage (Being the sniper I am) and I'll keep my double anarchy for things mid to close range. I see the logic behind wanting a hellfire over an anarchy.... if you can't find a better fire elemental weapon... but then again, that's not hard. :::holy shit... that guy just got obliterated. but yea, i just got me one of these and it made me the happiest pyromaniac in existence :3 i also have a hyperion double stinger which i use when theres flaming things. eats thru ammo like a fat kid on cupcakes (even with +20 ammo regen) but it gets the job done too, in a hail of bullets type of way. Sniper Scyt 06:07, December 9, 2009 (UTC) :using lilith with maxed mind games you can sit safely at close range of many bosses in the game and just strafe around them unloading a double anarchy into them. you will get much faster boss kills that way on many of them over using the hellfire. --same guy that originally responded :using the hellfire is better for standard situations of killing enemies at medium to long range and having to deal with multiples where you can get them burning and switch, but for short range fighting with a high life boss type while you have a constant daze up the double anarchy does win for pure killing speed. --same guy that originally responded :ps - why is he talking about ammo when a mercenary mod with ammo regen makes it pointless? --same guy that originally responded :seems like he just wants to flame to me. both weapons have their places they shine, no need to go into some page long flame fest because he touched your weapon in a naughty place. --same guy that originally responded ::lol they both have advantages and disadvantages, but double does eat thru ammo. tho, not quickly enough to make ya run out. that is of course you're shooting for 5 minutes or less, you should rune out completely at 10-12 minutes even with ammo regen. i should porbably test that though, idk how long it takes for it to eat all the ammo, would have to find a x4 though. but that depends too, is yours the kind that gives two free bullets or fires 4 bullets at once? Sniper Scyt 23:16, December 13, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::PS USE A SIGNATURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Sniper Scyt 23:16, December 13, 2009 (UTC) ::Lilith with Mind Games (level 5, 25% of Daze) and a weapon with a RoF above 4rps means a given enemy is gonna stay dazed. 12.5 or 50, it doesn't really matter The DA will almost certainly get the first daze in before any other gun, but lots of weapons out there could keep an enemy "under". ::Ammo burn rate: 12.5 x 2 = 25 rounds per second / 1440 round dark orange SDU = 58 seconds of continuous fire. In my experience, ammo regeneration isn't all that fast, around 1 round per second at "+10". If we assume 2 rounds/second at +20, you're still burning through ammo at 23 rounds/second, meaning it'll take 1440/23 = 62.6... seconds. About a minute either way. That ignores reload time entirely, which would slow the average RoF depending on clip size & reload speed. ::Hey, there's a new "best anarchy" listed on the DA page. 135 x 13.8 x 4 = 7452... though I suspect (given the odd RoF and huge clip) that this is "post skills/mod" stats. I wonder which (or even if any of them) stats listed are like that. Lets ass-u-me not. And with the 82 round clip, it needs to be reloaded after 2.97 seconds. Not bad at all. I doubt there's a shotgun around that could top that. ::(checks various discussion pages) ::The Matador might manage it. There's a level 36 matador listed that does 270 x 12 x 1.6 = 3264. One 14 levels higher might come close (but it'd still have a 2 round clip). ::As might the Hammer, thanks to its blast damage and relatively high RoF. Best: 160 x 7 x 2.4 = 2688, at level 46, and it has a x2 blast effect, though they can have x3. If we assume it procs about 25% of the time, that gives it an averaged DPS of 4704. ::Or the crux? 124x7x1.9 = 1649... Meh. even if its x4 corrosion procs half the time, it won't come close the the best Hellfire. ::Conclusion: Point blank, Double Anarchy has the best initial DPS in the game. However, your statement was "I still believe that the double anarchy will always have it beat". Not even remotely true, unless you consider "always have it beat" to mean "always at point blank", and I certainly didn't take it that way. That is why I replied as I did, to prove just how wrong your blanket statement was: :::Over a period of longer than 3-4 seconds, the hellfire has better DPS. :::Over a distance, ditto. :::If you care about ammo, ditto. :::If you like to hear your enemies shriek in agony as they die, ditto. >:) :::At point blank in under 3-4 seconds, the DA wins. :::Against fire-proof enemies, ditto, but only out to medium range, at which time the HF's superior accuracy takes over again. :::Against enemies immune to DoT (Rakk Hive, The Destroyer), DA again (within range). Also, Spiderants seem to "get over" the DoT faster than normal, though I haven't sat down with a stop-watch or anything. ::--I love the smell of NapalmEnima in the morning! 20:14, December 14, 2009 (UTC) this is kind of old and over by now, but assuming the person using the SMG is playing siren, the siren class favors close quarters combat with the active skill allowing her to jump into and out of the frey. i don't see distance being an issue in this scenario. unless someone has convincing information on the DOT in terms of real damage done, i'd say this is mostly up to a matter of preference (in the absence of fireproof enemies). --sX-- 01:04, January 8, 2010 (UTC) Augh! I was reading this, and it was so punny! "Seems he just wants to flame me", "Burn through ammo" XD I just thought I add that.BenNeg 20:46, June 1, 2010 (UTC) Hellfire versus DA part 2: Fire Elemental Enemies Against fireproof enemies the DA wins regardless of the range, because if you're honestly using a hellfire versus a DA against ANYTHING with a fire element you need your head checked, you'll spend twice the ammo taking out the fireproof enemy trying to rely on the damage of the hellfire's rounds alone *not to mention the reduced damage overall considering about half the damage from a round is it's elemental properties if not more*. :Lets take some of your math here :The best Anarchy listed (purple, level 43) works out to 5900 (118 x 4 x 12.5) DPS. :5900.... not bad :The best hellfire? A level 45 instance listed above does 1850 (148 x 12.5) + Burn Damage (148*4/5)118.4 DPS per bullet (BLAH BLAH BLAH some more math) = Grand total of 8362. Lets subtract the 118.4 x 55 (that's the dps from the fire) 6512 8362 - 6512 = 1850/2 *because half your bullet damage is still fire elemental and they're IMMUNE* = 925 *that's ALL 55 rounds hitting* I don't know about you but even 1 in 4 bullets hitting from a DA is still 1475, and I can guarantee with an accuracy boost from a mod, a partner, or even chance will tell you that unless you're trying to hit a RAKK in flight halfway across the salt flats, you're gonna hit more than 1 in 4. SO, while I agree that against most enemies (fire elementals aside) the Hellfire pretty much has the upper hand (outside of accuracy boosted mordecai hands that is) over the DA almost any day of the week. When you have one correct answer, don't assume that everything that follows will also be correct. Against fire enemies I could beat a hellfire with a level 1 plywood sniper. :Gebraheel 07:07, December 15, 2009 (UTC) ::First, your math is suspect. 1850 DPS / 2 gives you 925 DAMAGE PER SECOND. Clearly less than the DA at point blank, but again at some range the HF's superior accuracy will close the gap and pass it by. Even so, at that range you'll probably be better off with a sniper rifle. ::Are you sure about that "1/2 damage from the bullet" thing? Is this experimental data or something a dev has posted on their forums? Or is that another "brown number"? And if you have a legitimate level 1 plywood sniper that can manage 925 DPS, I'll eat my own feces. Sniper rifles, even great ones, really aren't that impressive in the raw-DPS department. ::In my experience, at even medium range some clusters-of-4 don't hit the target At All, and you'll occasionally get 2 or more. I estimate (brown numbers again) that it works out to less than 1 bullet per 4. At some range, that will be true. ::Furthermore, arguing the "vs flaming enemy" case is kinda silly. I never claimed that the HF was universally superior... that was (past tense I see) your deal, and flaming enemies are pretty rare, maybe 1% of what you'll face. It's pretty clear that a hellfire will be at its weakest there. Fortunately, we have up to 3 other weapon slots. Heck, one of them might even hold a DA (Lilith with a merc mod (SMG ammo regen) might carry nothing but SMGs, with different elemental effects) ::Arguing class mod bonuses or skills is a bit off-topic, but I'll play along. So what mods can help a DA vs an HF? :::Lilith ::::Firefly Ignite damage, big help for HF. ::::Merc SMG damage, helps both, elemental effect chance is pretty worthless to an HF, and the DA could use the ammo regen (more). ::::Tormentor team elemental effect damage (BIG help for HF) or team damage (helps both) ::::Mind Games, the DA benefits only slightly more from MG than the HF at point blank. ::::Slayer, HF benefits more due to its superior accuracy. ::::High Velocity, helps both equally :::Roland ::::Heavy gunner, helps both equally (clip size & weapon damage/rof) ::::Leader, team recoil reduction would probably benefit the DA more. ::::Support gunner, team ammo regen and team accuracy. BIG help to DA, quite nice for HF ::::Impact helps both equally ::::Stockpile helps the DA a bit more, but the ammo issue really isn't that big a deal unless you have no ammo regen in which case you'll be making more trips to the ammo dispenser. ::::Overload helps both equally :::Brick ::::Centurion's team magazine size helps both equally ::::Warmonger's team damage helps both equally ::::Rapid Reload helps both, a bit more to the DA due to recoil reduction. :::Mordecai ::::Ranger, team accuracy benefits DA more, team crit damage helps HF a bit more, team accuracy recovery helps DA a bit more ::::Survivor's team reload speed or team damage benefit both equally ::::Focus helps both, DA a bit more ::::Fast Hands reload helps both equally ::::Deadly helps the HF a bit more :::Anything that helps with accuracy or recoil will benefit the DA more than it does the HF, propping up its biggest weakness... not that the HF won't get even better, but the difference will be more noticeable with the DA. :::Anything that helps with elemental effect or fire damage (Lilith's turf) will help only the HF (and no, not against fire enemies). ::As long as we're talking "real world situations", how often do you run into enemies that are "meat" and take additional damage from fire? Over half the time? Lets say half. How often do you run into enemies that are fire-element endowed? Lets call it 5% of the time. ::So with an accuracy boost or two (weapon skill level, skills, and maybe a mod or two), the DA's effective range can be improved considerably. But an accuracy-boosting mod isn't boosting Something Else (Ranger vs Scavenger, or Leader's recoil vs ability cooldown). ::In my experience, HF > DA around 3 times in 4. Maybe that reflects a difference in our play styles. I'll hit my enemies from long range given the opportunity. Perhaps you prefer closer quarters, where the DA shines. ::--I love the smell of NapalmEnima in the morning! 19:49, December 15, 2009 (UTC) There are two things that you guys are overlooking. Fire damage is less effective against shielded or armored enemies, which are about every human. Also, more than 5% of enemies are fire-resistant: Enemies resistant to DoT or elemental damage, Enemies with Hyperion fire-resistant shields, and the many fire elemental enemies, amongst them Lance Pyros. Last, let's say that our test DA has 50 accuracy and our HF has 90 accuracy. Since the DA is firing 4 bullets at a time, but the HF is only firing one, only if you have perfect aim, i.e. have the crosshairs on the bandit's head 100% of the time, will the HF necessarily do better. In other words, the DA's bullets cover more area than a HF, just like a shotgun's pellets cover more area than a sniper's one bullet. This means that in a scenario where you aren't always aiming directly at an enemy, the DA will often hit with more of its bullets than a HF. So if you're not pointing directly at one of Crawmerax's weak spots (he's often moving...), your DA bullets might still do fair amounts of damage, but your accurate, single HF bullet isn't. :The devastating fire of a HF burns though almost every shield in no time. Same goes for fire-resistant shields wielded by enemies that are not fire-resistant themselves. Usually they are too weak to go up against the fire of a HF. Only enemys with extremely high shields are able to resist it a little longer. But even guys like Mr. Shank that have insanely high shields can't stand up against it for very long. Just keep on firing and its only a matter of a few seconds. :When it comes to armored enemies the HF is waaay better than a DA. A HF burns through Alpha Skags, Crimson Lance and all that stuff like almost nothing. A DA relies on normal damage which is heavily reduced by the armor. Normally fire is not that effective too. But the HF has it's insane stack. A armor can't defend against that much fire. :At least there are a few enemies extremely resistant to fire, DoT or elemental damage in general. The HF loses here indeed. But that kind of enemies is an absolute minority in BL. :In addition there is no legit DA with an accuracy over 38. You are not hitting with all four bullets all the time. Especially if you aim for the head. And you are forgetting the DoT. You need to keep on firing with a DA till the end. With a HF you can leave the enemy burning to death and already start shooting at another one. Anyway, you don't need crits with a HF to begin with. Aiming for the body, wait for a nice stack of DoT and leave them be. :Where the DA clearly wins is when fighting Crawmerax. Still the HF is useful against the green crabs. Which are annoying like hell. -- Cocofang 13:01, April 14, 2010 (UTC) ---- Just would like to add to this thread by adding that i just recently found a DA with DMG: 144x4 Acc 27.0 FR 13.8 3.9x scope/82 mag size...which ups the top DA dmg to 7,948.8 dps. But i still perfer to use my hellfire. :) :The best Anarchy is a Torgue at 204x4/~37.0/13.8 --Nagamarky 07:14, April 14, 2010 (UTC) Got all y'all beat. Just recently found lvl 48 HX 2 Combustion Hellfire, light orange, doing 168 damage, 88.9 accuracy, 12.5 fire rate, 28 clip, x4 incendiary(obviously). Being only a light orange, this is good news for anyone who wants an amazing hellfire, as there HAS to be better.-- 20:17, November 29, 2009 (UTC)dAC :good for you. -- 17:08, December 7, 2009 (UTC) ::The best Hellfires without the twisted barrel are 211/93.5/12.5 or 233/89.2/12.5 --Nagamarky 07:14, April 14, 2010 (UTC) one i just got is pretty similar, less accuracy and power tho, tho it has that invisible fast-reload thing, is that common for these? Sniper Scyt 06:07, December 9, 2009 (UTC) ::It might be the material if your gun is a Tediore. As Marcus says, "incredibly fast reload speeds". --Nagamarky 07:14, April 14, 2010 (UTC) 'High' vs 'Very High' elemental effect I have 2 hellfires atm, one says 'High Elemental Effect chance' and the other says 'Very High Elemental Effect chance'... is there a significant difference between the two? --Keltik 06:46, December 3, 2009 (UTC) :No, they will have 100% chance to ignite the target, regardless of what the stats say. --Saphireking65 07:26, December 3, 2009 (UTC) --one.beat.consumer 22:23, December 9, 2009 (UTC) :Yes, there is a significant difference. What Keltik was referring to is Hellfire's inherent chance to "ignite" the enemy, which means to apply the burn DoT; and all hellfires seem to have a 100% chance to do so. However, the "elemental effect chance" rate is a measurment of how often shot will be an instant elemental kill - corrode (facemelt), electrocute, explode, or incinerate (ash pile burn). I'm not sure the numbers behind the rating, but it means (other than on fire resistant mobs) that you will get more instant kills. A Hellfire gun, with a good rate of fire and a "Very high" elemental effect chance... is an amazing combo, and even with "High" you are still applying all four DoTs (x4 fire) in your first four bullets to hit (100% ignite chance). -T ::lol big thing short, what it means is it will set things on fire a lot, but there are bullets that explode in a bigger fire that instantly set things on fire. (try shooting one bullet at a time and you'll notice some of the bullets have a bigger fire than others, thats the elemental effect chance)Sniper Scyt 16:53, December 10, 2009 (UTC) --Gebraheel 02:29, December 11, 2009 (UTC) :Actually those elemental effects aren't instant kills. When you critically kill someone with an elemental weapon it shows those animations 100% of the time. Keltik was correct, the elemental effect chance is just that, the chance to apply the DoT elemental effect. Gebraheel 17:51, December 14, 2009 (UTC) ::EDIT: Sorry about that, I mispositioned the signatures, I thought the top part was a blank post and the first response was from Keltik. But yes, the hellfires *like the volcano snipers* have a 100% chance to apply the burning DoT. Honestly, other than to fill up space in an otherwise empty looking orange gun, there's no reason for the "high/very high chance" text in the weapon description. The hellfire having a 100% to apply it's elemental effect negates the need *why did the devs put it in* for a high/very high chance. ::no no, when i say get set on fire, i mean the npc gets the continuous time based fire damage, not die lol. and it does have 100% but the flames are smaller on most shots(with a small chance to set someone on fire), where as there are the larger, stronger ones have a 100% chance to set someone on fire. yet after re-reading everything, i'm sortof lost on whats being argued x-X Sniper Scyt 04:17, December 11, 2009 (UTC) BASICALLY, weapons like the Volcano and Hellfire are 100% chance to set ablaze, so the "elemental effect chance" indicator doesn't matter, it just comes with the incendiary weapon part. Nagamarky 11:48, December 15, 2009 (UTC) The Hellfire doesn't have 100% chance to start a dot on the target, at least on the PS3 version. This is easy enough to test. If it was 100%, every single shot would start a dot ticking. It is very, very high, but it isn't 100%. Even playing a siren with 5/5 spark and +3 from a Firefly mod, or using a Merc mod with +Smg elemental effect change, I still don't ignite with every shot. Firing three shot bursts nearly guarantees it, but I've even managed to shoot an enemy to death with various hellfires and not ignite them. Try it for yourself. RuinsFate 22:00, January 2, 2010 (UTC) *Hellfire has a 100% chance at triggering a 2x fire damage, and a normal mechanics for the 3x and 4x *So a hellfire with a very high will trigger the big explosions (x3 and x4) more often [[User:Talamare|'''-Talamare-']] 16:49, January 21, 2010 (UTC) Dont wanna complain but i have a hellfire, and it doesnt set the enemy ablaze at 100% of the time... its about, i dont know 75% or so... :I've got one also, Very High Elemental Effect Chance, Spark 5/5, and a class mod that adds Team Elemental Effect Chance +32%, and Team Elemental Effect Damage +30%. The fire DoT still doesn't go off 100% of the time. Mictlantecuhtli 09:26, March 18, 2010 (UTC) : The '''english' text says 'high / higher / very high elemental effect chance'; which can both mean 'it's possible to have higher elemental effects' AND 'higher probability of elemental effects'. The german 'text is 'hoher / höherer / sehr hoher Elementareffekt möglich' wich can ONLY be interpreted as 'it's possible to have higher elemental effects'; Maybe the translators just did a crappy job, but if not this answers the question A or B; same would be for volcano, defiler...... hope this helps.... BreakdancingYoda 17:26, August 18, 2010 (UTC) Accuracy is wrong. I'm not sure what the max is, but I had a Hellfire drop that was 92-93 accuracy, so it can get higher than what is listed here. :then raise the max, the weapons are completely random son no stats on this wiki are "wrong" they are just different. --Saphireking65 17:08, November 13, 2009 (UTC) The Hellfire main page says 92% accurancy is max... so he is right, my Hellfire has 93.5% ''We Don't Need No Water... This is a reference to "The Roof is on Fire" made by Rock Master Scott & the Dynamic Three in 1984. "Fire Water Burn" was made in 1992, so stop changing it because you don't listen to older music! --Saphireking65 17:08, November 13, 2009 (UTC) :theres also a newer version done by coal chamber as a cover of rock master scott's "the roof is on fire" -- :"Sway" :the roof the roof the roof is on fire :we don't need no water let the motherf***er burn :burn motherf***er burn :Dfareaper 18:10, December 5, 2009 (UTC) ::I know, and they took it from the old song, therefore it is a reference to the origional --Saphireking65 22:25, December 5, 2009 (UTC) hence why i said it was a cover of the original song but seeing as how not everyone listens to music from that era it is possible that whichever programmer put the descriptive text in is familiar with the newer song. gotta think multi-generational sometimes. im only 21 and im familiar with the original song, but not many people my age (give or take 5 years) are death from above--reapers never sleep XBL gamertag= Dfareaper 00:24, December 8, 2009 (UTC) : Apparently the line has been used in tons of songs according to Wikipedia. Know what, though? The only one I've ever heard -- or for that matter, the only '''artist that's used it that I've ever heard -- was Fire Water Burn by Bloodhound Gang. Just because something has been referenced before does not mean that the follow-up references aren't two degrees of separation out. I work with high school students who are frequently making references to things they've heard that are themselves older references, and they sure don't know the original and look at me funny when I bring them up. Know why? Because the later rendition was more widely-known, and obviously more current. I would safely assume that the reference is Fire Water Burn, but then YMMV. --Azuarc 16:58, February 5, 2010 (UTC) I <3 this gun I got one of these about 2/3 of the way through my first PT, and I'm still using it on my second. I find it's great for arena-type fights (circle of death, the boss in Sledge's safe house, etc.) where I find myself running around the room with something chasing me. Just turn around, give it a burst with the Hellfire, turn and sprint away. Rinse and repeat.--Luthiel 03:48, December 9, 2009 (UTC) My sentiments exactly. You really can't go wrong with these things; they put out that much damage. First found one of these things on PT 1, and worked my way up the tree finding better ones. Currently using a 203 dmg. 12.5 fire rate one since purchasing DLC3. I would use them in almost any situation, aside from the obvious places that fire fails. Between that beast and a 204 x2 Stinger, it pretty much makes for an unstoppable force. Unless you're not a support gunner, then it usually stops about 30 seconds in, when you're out of ammo. 00Average 20:18, April 15, 2010 (UTC) Hellfire .vs Friendly Fire i have a lvl 47 hellfire that can kill a badmutha brute(lvl 48) in 30 secs and lvl 48 Friendly fire that can kill in 20--Katanacut 22:48, December 12, 2009 (UTC) :once again dont put stuff down here lol, and isnt friendly fire a fire shotgun? i think i had one a while ago, but it was kinda crappy, tho i'm still looking for a fire shotgun, cant seem to find a decent one though, what are the stats on yours? Sniper Scyt 23:21, December 12, 2009 (UTC) :Number Time again. The previous best bullet damage in the table here gives 1850 DPS (the current one clocks in at 2050: 164 x 12.5, about 10% better, but with half the clip size). The best Friendly Fire listed has a bullet DPS of 1512 (120 x 9 x 1.4), with a 6 round clip (have to reload in just over 4 seconds. Hellfires "proc" on every bullet at x4. I haven't seen any mention of the proc rate of a Friendly Fire. Even so, they're x2 or x3. Admittedly, the FF discussion page has much fewer entries, so it's entirely possible that your FF is better than anything listed there. :Same ranges? Could a class mod be boosting your shotgun's effectiveness but not the SMGs? A small clip/slow reload time can greatly reduce a weapon's DPS in the long term. If we assume all else is equal then I must conclude that your particular FF is Much Better than your particular HF... but I assert that this is the exception, not the rule. :--I love the smell of NapalmEnima in the morning! 20:14, December 14, 2009 (UTC) I think that's just a matter of why a sniper rifle can kill faster than an SMG. While the SMG might have a higher DPS, the rifle could kill in a single shot. Vardinator 02:46, February 23, 2010 (UTC) Rof max at 12.5? As far as i see the highest recorded ROF is 12.5 but i play on xbox 360 and i have one thats DMG: 111 Acc: 86.6 Rof: 13.5. I've run across a few other hellfires that haven't even come close the the 13.5 ROF that mine has most of the hellfires i've foundare around 4-8 rof. Was wondering if anyone has seen anything higher then 13.5 Rof on the hellfire? I would post a picture of the weapon if i knew how. I'm not quite sure how to put this in but here goes. One HX 100 Combustion hell fire. The damage is 269 with a Accuracy of 88.9. The firerate is 4.2 and it has a zoom of 3.7x. The mag size is 18. Number two now. One TEK400 C Combustion hell fire. The damage is 237 with a Accuracy of 82.9. The firerate is 3.6 with no zoom at all. The mag size is 18. Appologies for not signing my post but here u go''' (Smorgan 07:12, March 26, 2010 (UTC))' While it would've been great for the poster above to sign his post(s), I have to say that both the Hellfires he listed are completeley legitimate as i've seen the exact same ones drop from Crawmerax. I personally have found one with 233 damage, 12.5 fire-rate and a magazine size of 55. I'll also make a point that my Hellfire, along with his/her's are from the Knoxx DLC. In all honesty this entire column should be removed, as the only reason it's here is because of the modded gun pictured above. Hellfires cannot come with a RoF higher than 12.5 without being tampered with. Lummus 22:06, March 23, 2010 (UTC) Acquiring Maliwan Hellfire Is a section like this really necessary? Just because some people are too dumb to realize 99,999999% of all the weapons in this game are completely random? If the Hellfire had a section like that all the other weapons should have one too. But thats complete nonsense because everywhere would be written exactly the same. I say: An "acquiring"-section for every weapon/item that has a set spawn-point. Everything else: NO! If it HAS to be (because the crowd of stupid 12-year-old-kids that ask silly questions like "where do i get this??????????????" is just too big) just put a short note into the Trivial-section like "Like almost all other weapons in the game the is completely random. There is no set place for acquiring this weapon." but an extra section for something that natural is needless imo. -- Cocofang 11:25, April 1, 2010 (UTC) :It's a practically worthless section. All guns can be acquired the same way, aside from certain mission rewards. And that way consists of simply playing the game and hoping for the best. -- WarBlade 11:55, April 1, 2010 (UTC) Nice Hellfire Just picked up a very nice Hellfire doing the Armory Glitch (it's weapon 12 in the images below the table). I think I can safely sell my others now - this one's a beaut! It would be nice if it were a tad more accurate (it's only 82.9%) but the damage and rate of fire is better than anything else I've got, and the 4.3x zoom is very nice. Even equipped it still lists as $9,999,999. Noice! Outbackyak 07:34, June 26, 2010 (UTC) =Variant Models= '''DO NOT PUT THINGS BELOW HERE, PUT THEM ABOVE THE CHART!!!' best hellfire? i recently duped a 233 damage, scoped, 12.5 fire rate hellfire off someone in a craw run. is it the highest damage for the 12.5 fire rate? i also have 211 and 214 damage with the same fire rate. thanks and take it easy.SAIYANHULK 17:00, April 30, 2010 (UTC) THE BEST HELLFIRE Mines has 301 damage, ill post a pic soon :What's the rate of fire? Unless it's around thumper level, your gun is modded. And if it is thumper level RoF, while it has high damage, it is not an effective hellfire. This is because it cannot stack the effect fast enough. -- 02:24, May 4, 2010 (UTC) :The fire rate is kind of low, like 6.5 i think, but it takes down enimes super fast. : :Claptrap, I beg to differ. I have a 74 damage 2.4 fire rate Hellfire. It's level 20, and it still kills shit at level 45. Thumpers are effective Hellfires. Albeit not as effective as 12.5s but they are still awesome. GnarlyToaster 14:07, June 13, 2010 (UTC) :I have to agree with GnarlyToaster on this one, a Thumper Hellfire is still useful. I managed to score one during a Crimson Armoury raid on Playthrough 2.5. It has a Damage of 293, accuracy of 92.8, fire rate of 4.2 and zoom of 3.9x. All together, that makes it an excellent weapon for a character like Mordecai; The high accuracy and zoom makes it useful even at medium-long range, while the fire rate is still high enough to stack DoT quickly, and to remain useful at short range. In short, a Hellfire with Thumper may not be as all-consuming as a non-Thumper, that doesn't mean it can't still be an effective weapon. - DaWrecka 02:38, July 27, 2010 (UTC) : :300 damage x 4.2 rof = ~1200 dps. :200 damage x 12.5 rof = ~ 2440 dps :just sayin'.GT: ConceitedJarrad XBOX360 02:49, July 27, 2010 (UTC) :And how many of those 12.5 rounds per second are going to actually hit at longer ranges? I'm not disputing the fact that a non-Thumper is going to outdamage a Thumper at short, maybe even medium range; But at longer range, the Thumper's higher accuracy means you land more hits than a non-Thumper. This is particularly relevant for a Hunter, who will usually be engaging enemies at medium- or long-range and where the higher accuracy is important. The point is that just because a Hellfire is a Thumper doesn't make it an ineffective weapon. - DaWrecka 14:40, July 27, 2010 (UTC) :Disregard that; Not long after posting that I got my mitts on a Hellfire which not only was not a Thumper and had a little over double the fire rate of my Thumper, but it actually had slightly-higher accuracy, 93.5 versus 92.8. Naturally the single-shot damage was less, around 180-190 if memory serves, but overall it would've been better since more shots + comparable accuracy = much more DoT pain. Thumper != better accuracy, at least not all the time. Mind, that was a high-end Hellfire, scope was second-from-top and the rest of the parts were top, I believe. Still, if the Hellfire Thumper is all you have then it's still worth using until you get a non-Thumper with comparable or better accuracy. Or just a higher firerate, depending on your playing style. - DaWrecka 18:06, August 3, 2010 (UTC) : :For The Chart : :Could someone add this to the chart, ill try to get a pic :Level 61 :HX-540C Combustion Hellfire :Dam-233 :Accuracy-89.2 :RoF-12.5 :Highly Effective vs. Flesh :Chance to Light enemies on Fire :We don't need no water :3.9x Zoom :Very High Elemental Effect Chance :Clip Size- 55 : 04:40, August 23, 2010 (UTC)Terest Most common legendary drop ? It may just be pure luck but when there's still a lot of legendary weapon I've never see I already found 5 Hellfire myself and my three roommates have each found one or two of them too. Note that when I think about it I've the same impression with the volcano sniper that I've already found even more than that